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| Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? https://mail.paphospeople.com/ppforum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2136 |
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| Author: | smurf [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Now I never thought that I would compare Gretna with Man U, Chelsea or any of the other clubs taken over by a sugar daddy (liverpool, villa, west ham and newcastle come under this), however Gretna who have had minute debts compared to the clubs listed or on the verge of going out of business after the withdrawl of their owner. (22 staff sacked today) if the glaziers sell up for what they paid for the club, what will happen to the massive debt they will leave behind, and as for chelsea, roman has been bankrolling them since they took over. I just think that the gretna saga along with administration for rotherham/bournemouth/luton and halifax (in 1 season this is ridiculous) shows that football is on the verge of a major upheaval and that there will be a lot fewer clubs playing professionally inside the next 10 years |
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| Author: | Pete [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
I understand what you're saying but you can't count the TOON in the same style as Man Usa, Chelski or Pool, as the TOON don't have any debt, as Ashley paid it all off, unlike the other 3 above, Man Usa £750m, Chelski £500m & Pool £350m in debt, as there owners haven't used their own money, just loans etc  The guy who owned Gretna was a geordie too, apparently he fell ill & withdrew his support, so now they are bankrupt & in big doodoo 
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| Author: | discopants [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Actually the guy who bought Gretna is a Mackem. I see your point Smurf but I think there would be a difference say between Man Utd, Liverpool,Chelsea when compared to Gretna,Rotherham and the rest and that difference is that the first three would always be able to find a buyer whilst the others couldn't. The first three are also BIG CLUBS. The comparison between Newcastle and Gretna mind is a feasible one ! They are not big clubs and wouldn't be able to find a buyer. Gary 
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| Author: | Pete [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
There's even more of a comparison between Gretna & Scumland, they both cost around £10m when last sold 
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| Author: | discopants [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Pete Who are you comparing Gretna with in the above post ? Gary |
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| Author: | zeusfc [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
NO! the major difference, is with about a billion fans worldwide, if the Glaziers decided to sell up, they'd make a packet, debt or no debt! most in the far east believe the colour red is lucky, and would be willing to invest a couple of dollars in their favourite team... myfootballclub.com? more like mytrophywinningentertainingcashgeneratingfootballclub.com! chelsea on the other hand, wear blue, and as such could be really in the brown stuff if Roman got bored! |
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| Author: | discopants [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
I think it's fair to say that in a previous post, the team referred to as Scumland, was, in fact, my team Sunderland.  My team/club were not in fact valued at £10m at all( well it could be argued that it was valued at that by a benevolent chairman) They were sold at that price by our previous chairman Bob Murray to Saint Niall as a favour to the fans. Murray is a fan himself but was taking so much stick he decided to sell at a price that he thought was acceptable to him. Mr Murray is still a fan. It seems ridiculous Pete that you would value a club at £10m when in fact the stadium that they owned outright, including the land and all adjacent land cost £28m to build ten years ago and is widely accepted by football fans as one of the best in the land! What is it's worth now? The Academy of Light is also acclaimed by the majority to be the best training facility in the UK. So it must be worth a bob or two. Since Saint Niall bought the club things have progressed and just in case you hadn't noticed, at least £50m has been spent on players and the current squad's value is about £65m. Kenwynne Jones alone would fetch £10m.( Probably more than that best in the world striker Michael Owen) Where were his world class qualities against France ? sorry another thread. I know Pete I should never forget the fact that we are nobodies and you support a big club but Pete as I've said before, there's nowt in it. You better believe it ! Gary
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| Author: | Pete [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
 And you say I'm deluded If a club is sold for £10m, then thats the value of the club, you can't go adding a price onto it because you don't like to admit its only worth £10m  Yeah you might have spent £50m on player since but what has it done for you, nowt, nadda, zilch, zip Jones may be worth £10m in your eyes but if you get relegated, he'll be worth £2m at best or you'll have to sell him for that because it'll be in his contract As for your stade de fright, why have a stdium that size when you have trouble filling it week in, week out  Just remember also Gary, my makem friend, its the people in the know that say we're a BIG club, so who's to argue with them, not me for sure personally I think its to do with sustained income & revenue, which the TOON have, its also to do with the amount of money the club spend every season, Under FFS we were one of the biggest spenders in the market, even if he was putting the club at risk, now under Ashley, we'll again be in the same league as Chelski, Man Usa, Pool, Villa, City, Spam, Spurts, Ports etc  Do you really think Quinnie will be able to sustain pumping £50m into the club every summer, I doubt it very much lets see how muc his Irish backers will stand when they don't get anything back in return So unto the weekend again, off to the taverna club tonight, rest up tomorrow & then take my youngest down to the G&D to watch us beat the Spurts  
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| Author: | discopants [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Ding Ding Round two. The club was not truly valued at £10m. It was a deal set up by a chairman who wanted out. If he sold it for £10m so be it but it was worth far more for reasons stated above ie stadium alone. I had to laugh when you state our £50m has got us zilch. What exactly has the millions you lot have spent got your club ? Come on show us your trophies As for Kenwyne Jones, I didn't realise you were a football agent in your spare time, do you represent him ? No so stop talking twaddle. I concede we don't currently fill our stadium which holds 49,300 but due to segregation will only ever get 47,500 in it. Our average gate this season is 42,650 and there will be 45,000 there tomorrow. That's quite tasty for a club who have been at the bottom of the league all season and who have let the fans down the last 2 times in the premiership.I think that's pretty wonderful for a club who are not big. You talk about sustained income and revenue making a club big would that be the £100m debt that Ashley inherited ? And Yes Saint Niall can spend £50m every season as long as we are in the Premier oh and our owners Drumaville are in it for the long run. Let's see what tomorrow brings and enjoy your taverna night. Just wear a badge with deluded on it then everyone will know who you are Gary 
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| Author: | Pete [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
You ask what the TOON have got for the money we've spent over the years, well try a top 4 slot 6 times, European football for our fans, a fan base world wide , what have you got for your £50m this season - a bottom 4 position so far, maybe relegated who knows So if you are relegated, Quinnie won't be spend £50m & you're owners will not be making money, so will probably either get rid of the chairman & manager or sell for a profit, maybe £15m So you capacity of 49300 but only fill on avergae 42000, so you have 7000+ segregation we have a 52300 capacity & fill it every home game, even with segregation plus we have a chance of expanding upto 60000 I may be some years (quite a few actually) younger than you but I do know quite a bit about football & the value of players, as you see my home team Stoke are going to be swapping leagues with yours next season, so players value increase & decrease depending on which league they're in, so if you think Jones is worth £10m now, he'll be worth a 3rd of that if you're sent down again Btw, you see Shola Ameobi has signed for Stoke on loan with the possibility of a perm move in the summer
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| Author: | discopants [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Actually Newcastle do not sell out every match, contrary to what you may think. They do get bigger crowds than us but that may have something to do with the fact that it is the main city in the North East and the population around it and the Tyne is a lot bigger than Sunderland and Wearmouth. What has my age got to do with this ? Your slightly elder Mackem mate Gary |
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| Author: | Pete [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
If we don't sell out, its because of the away fans not ours Age is relevant in football, some older people seem to think they know more bcause they're older Good luck tomorrow, you'll need it I think
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| Author: | discopants [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
You were advertising seats for the recent home game against Man Utd right up until kick off. You should have a bit more respect for your elders. I don't think I know more than you at all. My opinion just seems to differ to yours, at all times, about everything that's all. You do post codswallop. Gary |
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| Author: | smurf [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Pete wrote: You ask what the TOON have got for the money we've spent over the years, well try a top 4 slot 6 times, European football for our fans, a fan base world wide , what have you got for your £50m this season - a bottom 4 position so far, maybe relegated who knows So if you are relegated, Quinnie won't be spend £50m & you're owners will not be making money, so will probably either get rid of the chairman & manager or sell for a profit, maybe £15m So you capacity of 49300 but only fill on avergae 42000, so you have 7000+ segregation we have a 52300 capacity & fill it every home game, even with segregation plus we have a chance of expanding upto 60000 I may be some years (quite a few actually) younger than you but I do know quite a bit about football & the value of players, as you see my home team Stoke are going to be swapping leagues with yours next season, so players value increase & decrease depending on which league they're in, so if you think Jones is worth £10m now, he'll be worth a 3rd of that if you're sent down again Btw, you see Shola Ameobi has signed for Stoke on loan with the possibility of a perm move in the summer newcastle league position last 12 years 2007/2008 should stay up just 06/07 13th 05/06 7th 04/05 14th 03/04 5th 02/03 3rd 01/02 4th 00/01 11th 99/00 11th 98/99 13th 97/98 13th 96/97 2nd good spell when sir bobby was in charge not much better than boro the other years and a damn site more money spent regarding kenwyn jones (and even michael chopra for that matter) they will certainly get more money for them than you got for albert luque i feel sunderland doing well this year in my opinion, boro are underperforming and newcastle are just having a nightmare (for a supposedly big club) enjoy the footie |
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| Author: | Pete [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Look at it this way, considering what the 3 clubs have been thru this season  would you expect them to be in the position they are right now  Smoggies - Same Owner - Same Chairman - Same Manager - not a lot of money spent - 12th  Makems - Same Owners - Same Chairmant - Same Manager, second season in charge - £50m+ spent - bottom 4  TOON - New Owner - New Chairman - New Manager (Twice) - £11m spent - 13th  Personally, I think the TOON are doing far better considering the above
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| Author: | discopants [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
There that's more codswallop ! You are not happy with your club's position so don't try and disguise it. Everyone at Sunderland knew it was going to be a very difficult season and so it has proved. We are where we expected to be, involved in a relegation battle, as are the two clubs who came up with us. For Roy Keane to get us promoted at the first time of asking was a success and put us ahead of the schedule set out for the club. We will be happy to survive and continue the re build. Boro are unpredistable but will be safe and can look forward to next season. Newcastle's form under your new manager is atrocious and if it continues you will be a laughing stock, if you are not already. Setting off soon for the match, wish me luck Gary |
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| Author: | smurf [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
so a newly promoted club only 2 points behind a "big club" and you still say the "big club" is having a much better season, thats funny go on tell us another one
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| Author: | Pete [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
discopants wrote: We are where we expected to be, involved in a relegation battle, Gary Which fans in their right mind would accept such a position just goes to show the expectation you have for your club you lot are so pathetic, no wonder you never stay up, if your fanbase doesn't push their management to succeed As for you comment Smurf, you think you're doing well if the stay out of the bottom 5, never mind the position you're in now don't get too dizzy, you may, as you normally do, faulter & slip further down the position And yet again, you call us a 'big club' you must be listening to the pundits, the people in the know who say we're a big club, its only jealousy on your part that they don't call you anything like that
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| Author: | smurf [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
sorry pete i thought you said that you were a big club when you posted this "its the people in the know that say we're a BIG club, so who's to argue with them, not me for sure personally I think its to do with sustained income & revenue, which the TOON have" and if like the last few years we slip down the table as you say, well it has still been above newcastle in 2 of those 3 years there again boro is just a small town in yorkshire so we btter not forget ourselves 
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| Author: | Pete [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
smurf wrote: and if like the last few years we slip down the table as you say, well it has still been above newcastle in 2 of those 3 years I like how you say 2 out of those 3 & not 2 out of the last 6: 06/07 13th 05/06 7th 04/05 14th 03/04 5th 02/03 3rd 01/02 4th But I suppose it sounds better just using the last 3 years, than it would the last 6 as that would just blow your complete argument to shreads
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| Author: | discopants [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Well I'm with Smurf here. You say we are pathetic, we are not at all. We are realists. You are deluded. Read back over your posts, you DO say you are a big club all of the time. Did you decide to follow the mags cos you thought they would win something ?( cos it looked back then as if they would!) I am with my club wherever they are. To stay in the Premier is what we need. It's what we want. When we have been in 2 or 3 years we will move on. I was with my club when we went into the ( what is now) second division and I'm still here. Would you be if the mags dropped down 2 divisions ? Talking of dropping down divisions, have you seen the position you lot are in ? Goodnight Pete,....On our way, On our way, Up the Premier we're on our way...... Gary |
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| Author: | smurf [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Pete wrote: smurf wrote: and if like the last few years we slip down the table as you say, well it has still been above newcastle in 2 of those 3 years I like how you say 2 out of those 3 & not 2 out of the last 6: 06/07 13th 05/06 7th 04/05 14th 03/04 5th 02/03 3rd 01/02 4th But I suppose it sounds better just using the last 3 years, than it would the last 6 as that would just blow your complete argument to shreads well i do teach maths so i may as wll use the statistics that work, otherwise someone might say they won something 50 years ago and expect it to mean something |
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| Author: | Pete [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
discopants wrote: I was with my club when we went into the ( what is now) second division and I'm still here. Would you be if the mags dropped down 2 divisions ?.... Gary If you really need to know Gary, I actually started supporting the TOON when they were in the 'Old Second Division' not when they were already in the Premiership, chasing Man Usa for the title, so even if they went down again, I'd still support them, its called holding the 'Faith' as I've said before But saying that, I still want them to succeed, not just do enough to survive like you seem to  Now smurf, you said 'you teach maths so i may as wll use the statistics that work' but thats you using the stats that work for your argument, not the true stats that make you argument sound pathetic, as I've stated And why did you feel the need to mention 50yrs, is it to make a point because the TOON haven't won demostic trophies in that time & you won the Carling Cup whoopy-doo, please remind me how long you lasted in Europe because of that trophy win because I don't actually remember you getting very far, unlike the times the TOON played in Europe both in the Uefa & Champion League cups a few years back, getting into the last 16 & semi-finals on a few occasion So compared to your 2 clubs, our Premiership record speaks for itself, yes we've had a few dodgy years with extra dodgy managers but at least we've competed with the best teams in Europe & for the majority of it, we've been a top half team, so if you want to match stats, please feel free & understand, the TOON are the top team from the NE by far
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| Author: | smurf [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
actually the point was, that you could use statistics to show anything you want, and when it comes down to it the past is just that, the past. it doesn't matter who won what intheir history it is how they are doing now that counts. that is why i said several posts ago that newcastle are having an awful season given the expectations up there if you do want to go on about teams "because I don't actually remember you getting very far, unlike the times the TOON played in Europe both in the Uefa & Champion League cups a few years back, getting into the last 16 & semi-finals on a few occasion " i am pleased for you getting to the semi's and last 16 a few times is that like a few steps before a european final, cant seem to remember who that was, maybe you can help us out
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| Author: | discopants [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
I've always thought that the Champions League should be for Champions. If that was the case Newcastle would never have qualified to be in it. What are/were they champions of ? They got in via the back door. We won the FA Cup in 1973 by the way but we do not go on about it.I know it's along time ago but sadly I believe it's the last time a North East team won anything.(well, anything worthwhile) Smurf's right, look to the future not the past. Gary
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| Author: | Pete [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Gary mate, The reason we were in the Champions League is because we finished 2nd & 3rd in the Premiership, so we got to play with big boys, which is something you guys have never played with yet Gary, so will you post the Mars Bar or bring it with you when you are next over 4-1, even with a worse team than last year, we beat the Spurts with a bigger goal difference
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| Author: | smurf [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Pete wrote: 4-1, even with a worse team than last year, we beat the Spurts with a bigger goal difference that surprises me, as i think the newcastle squad is better than last year, you signed defenders, got rid of titus, brought in midfielders and a strong forward in viduka, how exactly are you weaker than last season 
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| Author: | Pete [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Personally I don't we are but all the tabloids & critics say we're a weaker side I think its because the new players hadn't settled in but that seems to be changing now for the better On paper we are a much better side, as you can tell from todays game but there are people out there who think differently
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| Author: | discopants [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Yes but you were never champions were you ? I don't owe you a mars bar see other thread Gary |
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| Author: | Pete [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
So now you're reneging on your bet now  Show me proof of where you cancelled the bet
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| Author: | discopants [ Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
I didn't cancel the bet but I get off on a technicality. I said you wouldn't get three and you didn't. How the hell would I get a Mars bar to you anyway ? Gary 
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| Author: | Pete [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Check your post mate, you said 'I bet you a box of mars bars you wont get 3 this time' but we did get 3 & we got another 1 to boot, so even on a technicality, you worded your post wrongly mate As for getting them here, well that's your department, I hear Parcel force is a good start
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| Author: | discopants [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Listen Pete I'm a decent sort of chap so will honour the debt. Just don't hold your breath ! Gary
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| Author: | Pete [ Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is Gretna a warning for Man U and Chelski? |
Its ok mate, you'll be moving here in 2009, so I'll collar you then
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