Paphos People

Happy New Year to everyone. This is our first post on this forum but we have been following you for some two years now. We have bought a plot of land, got all plans and permits required, and we are now hoping to have another couple of years here in Dubai, before retiring to Cyprus. We have a builder, and a project manager, but, wondered if any forum members who have done the same thing have any advice for us e.g. something you wished you had done differently, installed or not wasted your money on? We are going for underfloor heating, but are not sure whether to have electric or water heating, we will also have a wood burner, we are installing a water softener, hopefully the new capsule type system.

We will be ordering a timber frame from the UK, and top quality insulation which should mean we don't get any of the problems associated with a concrete pour (damp/cold).

Look forward to hearing from you, we have picked up some really useful information so far, and we will continue to learn from those who have already earned the t-shirt. Thank you.

Hi
Welcome to P.P

Is you builder a cypriot company or another , I would suggest that you
do the contracts for stage payments, so that they dont get paid until each section is completed
otherwise you could become unstuck

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REACH 1000`s of PAPHOS CUSTOMERS EVERY DAY FOR A FRACTION OF WHAT THE OTHERS CHARGE
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Whilst the optimist and the pessimist argued that the whisky glass was either half full
or half empty ? .
I drank it .....
The opportunist..

Insulate - as thick as you can afford.

Get UPVC windows or aluminium with a thermal break. The normal, readily available aluminium windows let heat out in the winter and in during the summer.

Try to get patio doors with a handle (really a finger insert rather than an actual handle) on both inside and out, ditto the door flyscreens.

Most front door locks available here are such that if you shut the door, the door is locked - very easy to lock yourself out with the key inside! There must be something available more like the good old Yale lock, but try to get one that you can still unlock from outside even if the key has been left in the lock inside.

Have you considered storage space? Cypriot houses generally don't have much storage space, hence the preponderance of sheds in the garden, on the veranda, etc etc. You will need somewhere for those bulky items like suitcases, Christmas decorations, winter/summer rugs if you use them, etc etc etc.

If you have a garden, where will you store your gardening tools, wellies, pots, the gas BBQ, the cushions for the garden furniture? Are you building a garage? Is it big enough for your workbench, screwdrivers, wrenches etc AND the car?

Solar panels for hot water - get the newer insulated panels and make sure your builder/plumber installs them facing the correct direction (due south is best for maximum heat) and at the correct angle (45-60 degrees).

If you are having a chimney or flue, make sure it is "bird-proofed" - when a little bird or two falls down the chimney, loads of soot comes too and the birds fly round scattering birdy doo and soot EVERYWHERE

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

Thank you Neil, we will certainly be doing stage payments! We have been recommended a builder, met him, met some of his clients, and seen his work, so we are as comfortable as we can be ...... but, better safe(r) than sorry. Even in these hard times he is busy, which I think is a good sign.

Kay, thank you for all those good points, especially re. the chimney. we will have a wood burner, but now will make sure we follow your advice, also re. locks. We live on a compound here in Dubai, and have become accustomed to being quite lax with security. We should be OK for storage space in that the house design is a single storey living area, but, as we are on the side of hill/terrace, we actually have a basement area, where we hope to have a workshop/garage/storage area.

How do you find Polemi? We did look at a building plot there, which if this one had fallen through would have been our second choice. The plot wasn't as scenic, but then we would have built a completely different house, and the village had a great deal to offer, I really liked it.

Thank you again.

Denise

Hi Denise
We love living in Polemi, plenty going on, good amenities (shops, banks, coffeeshops, tavernas).

Where will you be building? PM me if you don't want all the world to know

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

something to think about because you are looking to build from scratch
HEATING!!!!
Electricity here is VERY expensive
heard of folks with underfloo heating who cannot aford to use the underfloor heating
just a thought
but
if you are having a wood burner fitted ( best heat as far as we are concerned)
why not have iether a double sided one fitted.to reach more parts of your villa
or
have one fitted with a back boiler
that way you can run radiators off the wood burner

just thoughts by the way
but if we where building from scratch
thats what we would look at doing

all the best with your build
it's COLD up there in those mountains

so heating is very important
maggie

You might want to check the situation regarding building, maintaining, and access rights on access roads. Don't assume.
Also check that electricity and water will be available and at what conection cost.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

And if internet is essential, how much will it cost and from what provider? Cytanet wanted something ridiculous like €9K to bring telephone (and broadband) down to our house from the main road. Needless to say, we're not with them.

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

Our plot is in Giolou(sometimes Yiolou) the next village on from Stroumbi. Straight through the village, then on the way out, there is a bend, small track down on the right, there are some other houses there, two lovely traditional stone cottages, and a kennels/cattery, so we won't be Billy No Mates. We are on the road side of the valley, and I think if you continue on the track it leads you up the other side of the valley, and into the Polemi - but then again directions are not my strong point!

Thank you migmogs, I was going to ask about underfloor heating - we started off thinking electric, because it was cheaper to install, but are now tending towards gas because gas will be cheaper to run - anyone have any experience of either? Not just the installation, servicing, what assistance is available if it goes wrong?

Plans have been done and a building permit issued, which won't allow for a double sided woodburner, we have one large open plan room with a cathedral ceiling - BUT we have allowed for top grade insulation, and slightly wider walls so we can get a greater depth in. Also, funds permitting we will be all stone, with thick walls, but, if we need to make economies, stone and render.

I am up early today because we spent all day yesterday talking about our plans, and then visited Dragonmart, which is the Chines megamall here in Dubai, sells everything, - never thought I could get so enthused about taps!

Good reminder, we do have all those things, on the down side, it seems all the rain you have had has damaged part of the road, but plans are in hand to repair it (and paying a contribution has made it all feel more 'ours'). Water and electricity all OK, and 'legal'.

Thank you again.

We would be lost with t'internet, we know that our neighbours do have it (and the speed is faster than here in Dubai) and have read a lot of negative comments about Cytanet, but with arrival being probably two years hence we will wait to see what develops in that time. Both our sons are presently at uni in the UK so we email, and BBM all the time, but there is the assurance that it is available where we are.

Denise

Morning Denise

We have gas underfloor heating - and I love not having frozen feet at this time of year!

Just remember, it's not worth trying to heat your water in the winter with the central heating if it's underfloor - there is a maximum temperature at which u/f c/h runs, and it's not hot enough for a shower Also, if you are having a bath fitted in your bathroom/s, the plumber will probably not run the u/f c/h pipes under it/them, thus reducing the amount of warmth available to heat that room.

I'd recommend you fit a Horstmann E15 timer to your hot water immersion heater - that way, you can switch the immersion on if there's been insufficient sunshine to provide hot water, without worrying that you'll forget to turn the lekky off.

Have your hot water tank & panels as close to bathrooms as possible, and lag the pipes and also the entry/exit joints on the well-insulated tank. Fit pipe insulation over the pipes and then cover with special black tape to hold it in place and reduce sun degradation.

Also you can install your boiler inside (Cypriots LOVE putting the c/h boiler in a building separate from the house, thus heating the garden with the pipe run) - ours is a Baxi boiler and designed to fit in a kitchen, we've got it in the integral garage.

When your electrician is wiring your place, see if he will fit an isolator switch for your washing machine/dishwasher/whatever where you can get to it WITHOUT having to pull the machine away from the wall

Hopefully, your floor area is sufficient (and I don't know the criteria) for your lekky to be 3 phase because if you are connected on only a single phase, it rather restricts what electrical items you can run simultaneously.

Is your access road a public road and therefore maintained by the village and/or District Office? If not, you might need to consider buying a 4x4! Our shortest route to the main road is still not public (although our developer led us to believe he had it in hand for the District Office to take it over). For his ease of access while building, our developer laid a thin skim of tarmac, no rebar and no concrete. Well, after several wet winters and many HGVs plus all the normal vehicular traffic of Cypriots tending their fields and householders toing and froing, that tarmac is disintegrating and some of the lower-slung cars actually scrape their undercarriages due to the depth of the ruts in the road.

You say you've bought the plot - have you actually got your mitts on that creamy yellow piece of paper issued by the Land Registry? If you have, well done. If not, proceed with extreme caution.

Anything else I can think of, I'll let you know as and when.

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

Thank you for all this, were you a plumber in a previous life? Whar kind of boiler do you have, is it a condenser type? We hope to get one to run the underfloor, and were wondering if we could have two large gas bottles, in the basement area under the house, and run both the heating and the gas cooker off, but we don't even know if that is possible.

We were extremely fortunate when we bought, the vendor had sorted out all access issues with the neighbours, and got everything in writing. We paid for the land and all documentation was done in about 6 weeks I think. When I read of the difficulties some people are experiencing, you can't imagine the worry they are going through.

If we were in the UK it would be second nature to lag pipes, but we hadn't even considered that, I expect we will have to do everything as per the UK for pipework. I believe our water tank is closer to the kitchen rather than the bathrooms, but not sure if we can do anything about that now, because we have a cathedral ceiling our options are limited.

We are not having a bath installed, we both prefer showers, and as we get older getting and out of a bath can be a challenge, however, we have made the bathrooms large enough to put a bath in.

Did you import any of your fixtures and fittings from the UK (or anywhere else). On our trip to Dragonmart we found some lovely tiles, sanitary ware, taps etc. and we are currently considering if it is worth a half container load, but are unsure how it works at the Cypriot end e.g. if one of us would have to be there to sign for it, or if it can be addressed to the builder - plenty of time for that though.

Last time we were in Cyprus we stayed in a friends house, and somehow, managed to break two toilet seats! So off we set for Paphos to buy replacements - I was absolutely stunned at the price, we trawled up and down the road into Paphos from Strumbi, and all the builders merchants were the same roughly, and we ended up paying 35 euro for a really cheap looking toilet seat. Now, that was pre the opening of Leroy Merlin, and my question is, has the arrival of Leroy Merlin changed things, do they have a good selection reasonable quality items?

Thank you so much for the link to to the photo album, really interesting, and for all the information you have provided so far, it does make such a difference to hear the opinions and advice of people who have already been down the same route. We have been out of the UK for 8 years (apart from short visits), and have grown accustomed to how things are here, and we are trying to remain aware that we may make assumptions that might not be correct for how things are in Cyprus.

We both appreciate all the time and advice everyone is giving us.

Denise

Me, a plumber?
I'm not technically minded at all
All this info is just what I have gathered with our own house build. Plus the odd pertinent question to OH who is VERY technically minded.

Builder tied plot, so no option as to getting stuff from anywhere other than his preferred suppliers.

Our boiler is not a condenser type, it is a Baxi Luna.

If you are going to have bulk delivery gas (tanker lorry), you will have to rent a tank (either 500 litres or 1000) from the company that supplies the gas - we thought we'd bought the wretched thing, we paid so much! We use Petrolina and have a 1000 litre tank - our neighbour started with a 500 litre tank and discovered it did not last him long enough - the drivers do not come up into these yer hills every 2-3 weeks! He now has 2 x 500 litres. Remember, with gas, they never fill the tank right to the top, to allow expansion room. 75-80% is max fill. The 500 litre tank is allowed to sit against the outside wall of your house, but the 1000 litre one is a hazard and must be further away Ours is against the garage wall - remember, the garage is integral and therefore part of the house - while our neighbour has both his 500 litre tanks side by side against his house wall

We run the heating, the gas hob (for some reason, the Cypriots do not like gas ovens and they are difficult if not impossible to find over here) and the gas fire all from the bulk supply tank.

You stayed in a friend's house, and managed to break two toilet seats - remind me not to invite you to stay Did you actually break the seat, or just the hinges? Hinges are easily replaced over here.

I know several people who are enthused about Leroy Merlin, but we have no experience ourselves.

All the best, gotta go now and get my cake out of the oven

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

Hello Kay, Thanks for all this, the gas tank info is just the sort of stuff we need to know, we had assumed it would be like here, where the gas delivery men come round after a phone call! Still, labour is cheaper here. It looks as if we will either have to make provision for the maybe two smaller tanks in the basement area, or if we go for a larger one it will have to be down on the lower level of the plot. Again, interesting about the gas oven, I will get a range lookalike cooker here, and bring it over, I have been using this one for 8 years and we only bought cheap because we were originally only going to be here 3 years.

Well, the toilet seats, I sat on one, and it cracked, the lid part that is, then, OH decided to tighten up the screws on the other seat, overtightened them, and they broke off! Anyway, at least it made sure we knew first hand what prices were like.

Our weekend here is Friday/Saturday and we are going to spend it planning out the bathrooms. I have no ability to read plans, so will be cutting shapes out of large pieces of paper and putting them on the floor so I can actually visualise it - can't wait.

If you are having a concrete floor, you will need to plan everything down to the last detail - it's very difficult to move the pipework for a washbasin once the floor's been poured!

We spent ages going over the plans - electrical, sanitary, kitchen, etc etc etc - and still made a few minor mistakes (either us, or the contractor!).

Try not to locate your shower so the water sprays on the window. I've seen many showers fitted against the wall with the window - and the window always ends up sprayed and splodgy.

If you're having a walk-in shower with no screen, make sure your loo and loo roll will be far away from the spray - it's amazing how far flung the drops get

Will you be fitting an extractor fan in the bathroom? Glad we did - when the wind's howling outside and an open window is not an attractive proposition, the fan removes the steam no problem.

Will you be asking your builder to run the underfloor heating underneath the wardrobes as well? We didn't, but have not found damp inside the wardrobes either. I know that some people over here have rigged up a system of delivering a mild warmth into their wardrobes to combat the persistent Cypriot problem of damp/condensation.

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

On that last point, I have put vents in my wardrobe doors which seems to work.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

And don't forget to ask your electrician to install isolator switches inside for each outside socket - that way, your neighbours' workmen cannot just help themselves to your lekky when you're not there.

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Kay

Those who do not like cats, must have been mice in a previous life.

Thanks for that Kay & Josef K, we have decided to run the underfloor heating under the built in wardrobes, but we are really hoping that as it is a timber frame with a high level of insulation we won't suffer from damp. I have noticed from following various Cyprus forums that damp comes up as a particular problem during the winter months because of the way the houses are built, or presumably, heating with kerosene heaters, which create moisture in the air.

It was a bit of a shock to me seeing them used as a main form of heating in some houses, I remember them being used as a child in the UK, and the accidents they caused. We felt that although we definitely don't want Cyprus to be the UK with sun, we did want some of the comforts/modern stuff we had become accustomed to.

We spent last weekend taping out rooms on our floor here, and making paper cutouts of appliances, toilets, etc. and planning where everything can go, as we realise it could be very expensive to make a mistake with this bit.

Denise

Very very nice stuff indeed.. I am planning to build my new home very soon and I will take care of these vital points..

Our understanding of the main reasons that Cypriot built houses are cold & damp in the winter is (a)Solid concrete walls without (obviously) a cavity,(b)Poor or non-existant insulation,(c)Poor or none existant ventilation (beyond opening a window), (d)Rising damp - due to concrete construction methodollogy on (usually) a slab foundation, without an adequate damp-proof course. They should lay a impervious membrane beneath the foundation slab, but frequently 'forget' or manage to puncture it during the build process. & (e)They do not usually fit gutters & downspouts or land drains, to take the large volumes of water away from the building structure when it does rain in Cyprus. (nb.Grey water storage for irrigation purposes is also a new concept here).
From other posts & your responses I would say you have some of these issues covered, but not all. Hope this is helpful.
p.s Not sure actively purchasing Chinese made goods is a good way to go if you want things to last - we are to some extent a captive audience in this respect in Cyprus, but for the most expensive things where you would look for quality, we resort to shipping from the UK.

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I'll be back!