Paphos People

Good morning Haris,

Could you possibly give us some advice regarding non-payment of Communal fee's. Some of our owners who constantly refuse to pay their bills have racked up quite a sizeable amount between. Our developer has asked our Management Committee to help them solve the problem.

The developer, who is also our Management Company has informed us that, should we ever consider changing to a different supplier, then the debt becomes the responsibility of our Management Committee.

Is this true Haris, we are not a huge complex but the debt situation is spiralling and it is the same people who don't pay every time. This causes quite a bit of ill feeling throughout the complex but makes our Committee's job even more difficult. I must add that the Committee are in their infancy, no bank account and not registered at the Land Registery. The five members are very concerned about this statement and who can blame them if what the developer says is true.

Can you please clarify if this is the case. Is it the responsibility of the Committee to recover the debt or, would the debt stay with the developer should the owners decide to change Management Companies.

Any help or advice would be much appreciated Haris.

Regards,

Kelly.

Kelly

The debts are the responsibility of the Committee who can be called upon to pay them.

Alan
(Former C'tee Chairman)

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your reply.

Do you by any chance know if there is a 'Legal Document' to back this up please. I am very interested to see what Haris thinks on this as it seems very unfair to say the least but value your response and will pass this on.

I can see why you state in brackets " ex committee member" !!!! Ha. No doubt our's will be the same after reading this.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply,

Kelly.

My friend in Spain with a similar problem, and with the agreement of the payers, just emptied the communial pool and fitted small plunge pools in their own areas. Saved a lot of grief and costs. When non-payers turned up they were politely asked that if they wanted to use the pool, to pay for it too be filled up, plus chemicals and any parts that needed replacing, as their contribution to communial costs. Got at least half of them to pay up. Didn't completely solve the problem but most of the non-payers got the message.

The also split up the communial gardens between the payers and tended them themselves.

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Clive of Payia

So can the management committee call upon the payers to make up the balance left by the non payers ?

we have a similar situation in our complex. A letter is sent out and when non payment reaches a certain limit then a charge is put on their propery so that if they sell the money if any is retrieved. This only applies to EU members as we are owed about 20000 from a russian and apparently this money cant be got at! !! Welcome to Cyprus. You need legal advice though and good luck. Our neighbours in another complex changed their management company and were also told they would have to pay the debts, but this was not the case and they are now paying less and new company collecting money on their behalf are much more efficient.

Dear Kelly,

The committee of the complex has the right to take legal action against the persons who do not pay their common expenses. If the committee has appointed an outside management company to deal with the cleaning etc. of the common areas, then the committee is responsible to pay the private management company and it is the responsibility of the committee to collect the money from the owners.

If there is no committee at the complex, and the developer has a management company and he signed agreements directly with each individual owner of the complex, it is different. It means that the management company of the developer who has a separate agreement with each owner can ask the money from the owners and he can take legal action against the owners who do not pay.


Best Regards,

Haris Kalogirou

Hi Haris,

Thank you for your reply and also to everyone else that took the time.

This is a tricky situation, some of the debtors have not paid a cent in nearly 10yrs towards communal fee's. The developer has taken legal steps to recover the debt but to no avail. They have asked our committee for help but how do they expect them to get the money if a big developer with lots of legal clout get nowhere.

The developer stills maintains the complex to quite a high standard, although expensive but don't even get a reply from some of the non-payers whom I must add, still use the facilities. Some of them rent their properties out, receive a monthly income but still don't contribute.

If the committee were to find a better deal with another Management Company, would the debt stay with the developer or, would our committee be responsible for collecting it if the majority of owners voted to go with the new Company.

Our Chairperson has searched many Laws and Regulations but cannot find any clear indication on which theory is correct. If it is down to the committee to recover the debt, surely there must be a rule, regulation or Law stating this.

Any more help would again be gratefully appreciated and thank you for your assistance everyone. Seems to me the debtors won't give a damn in knowing that we can't save money by changing Management Companies. And they also know we wouldn't stand a chance in chasing them because the 'big boys' got nowhere so how can a bunch of volunteers without any clout get anywhere. It's a no win situation either way, if the committee are 'legally bound' to recover the debt, then who on earth would want to be on a committee ? Crazy world !!!!

Very kind regards,

Kelly.

Dear Kelly

Go to Nigel Howarth's property forum or see his forum on C L. You can download the Law about Cyprus properties from either of these two sites. It makes interesting, but crazy, reading.

Our only regret about living here is that we are on a communal complex, like everyone, we have bad payers in exactly the same situation as yours.

Best wishes

Alan

Luckily everyone on ours pays up. However, you might find the document on this link useful - http://www.cyprus-property-buyers.com/f ... gs-law.pdf . I think it is the one to which Alan refers.

I must say, I am surprised you still have your developer maintaining your complex after 10 years. It is usually the most expensive option, and the one that people are most inclined not to pay for.

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein

Quote:- "If the committee were to find a better deal with another Management Company, would the debt stay with the developer or, would our committee be responsible for collecting it if the majority of owners voted to go with the new Company."

Even if you go with another company, how do you stop the non paying happening again?

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Dave
Moira And Dave

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

Our Developer gave us notice after 5 years. Collecting money from defaulters is a nightmare, even if two of you speak to them around the pool or somewhere informal, you quite often get abuse and NO backup from fellow Residents. People just don't want to get involved .......I'm on holiday mate nothing to do with me.

Alan

Hi Everyone,

To answer Josef k's question. We haven't had an alternative other than to stay with the developer because we don't have any funds. Although 10yrs seems a long time to stay with them, we have only just formed our committee recently. It has taken the last few years to get enough people interested and willing to step up to the plate. We can't open a bank account due to the financial situation in Cyprus. The debt situation has only been brought to our notice over the last year or so but some of us were aware that there were people who couldn't or wouldn't pay their share.

I think M.A.D. has hit the nail on the head with the question we could do with Haris answering in his legal capacity. Would the debt stay with the developer if we were to change Management Companies.

This is a very sensitive subject and by the sounds of it affects so many people in Cyprus, especially those living on complexes, surely there is a defining Law which clearly states the case one way or another. When the properties were sold, the developer made up contracts with each individual owner/buyer. They did not have a signed contract with a Management Committee so how does the responsibility become the Committee's to recover debt which has nothing to do with them directly.

Thanks again for all of your contributions,

Kelly.

Surely if the tenants’ had an agreement with the developer to provide ‘communal services’, and had been paying the developer directly for these services, it’s the developer’s responsibility to recover any outstanding debts that are owed to them and not the duty of a new committee or new maintenance provider. The new committee or new maintenance provider are not owed any money after all.

It is the developer or whoever those that are paying, pay who has allowed the debt to occur.

It would be interesting to see a copy of the agreement between the developer and tenant re provision of ‘communal services’ and the penalties for not paying.

If you didn’t form a committee or approach a new provider, will the developer allow the situation to continue?

These are only ‘thoughts’ since I don’t live on a complex and don’t have communal charges so may be talking rubbish but it comes back to my original question “what happens if you form a new committee or appoint a new maintenance company and those who currently don’t pay, continue not to pay”?

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Dave
Moira And Dave

“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”

On the complex I am on, we have taken over partial management of our communal charges.

We will take full responsibility when the Title Deeds are issued. (Whenever!!)

We took legal advice and have found that as the Communal fees were collected by the Developer for 5 years, it is their responsibility to chase any shortfall.
We have also found out that we can set a time limit as to how long arrears can accrue. When and if this is reached we can take over the property and evict any tenants and change the locks. The apartment still remains the owner's property, but we can allow access when payment is received.
A solicitor in Limassol has shown us the legal papers that allow this.

By buying on a complex you sign documents that are a contract with the Management Committee, whoever they may be, and if they are providing the services you are obliged to pay up.

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Age improves with good wine

Big Nev

Whilst in theory your proposals seem very good, but putting them into practice will be very different. I wish your Committee well, but precisely who is going to change the locks or tell a 6foot tall tattoed monster with wife and four children in tow that he can't get into his apartment having just spent 12hrs travelling from UK/Russia/elsewhere in the world?

Good luck.

Alan

I can see your point, Alan.
We have the advantage that all our apartments have a communal door that lead to 4 apartments. That is the lock that can be updated and the payers given a new key.

We also intend to collect communal fees monthly by DDR and not 6 monthly by invoice. This helps the cash flow and also pinpoints the non-payers early.
We have even thought of giving people a discount for paying in this manner.

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Age improves with good wine