Paphos People

Well Chris, did think it was political as well so here goes!

Sarkozy - you know, the infamous ex-President of France - says that the camps at Calais are the responsibility of UK and that the relevant border controls should be relocated to UK.

My question would be what is France doing about its own border controls?? The majority of those camped in Calais are not from the EU, so why is France not sending them back to whence they came, or accommodating them in secure transit accommodation pending either their applications for asylum in FRANCE or returning them to their home country as failed asylum seekers?

Why does this become a UK problem?

France is, as usual, passing the buck. Quelle surprise!!!

Get off your high horse Sarkozy, France needs to sort it's own problems out instead of rolling over and waiting for someone else to solve them!!!

Think backbone may be the word, sorry don't have the translation to hand.

Don't you mean "Get off your high horse Olland..."?
In which case I agree.
Geoff.

You have got it wrong again Geoff and George is correct .

Olland has agreed with May to keep things as they are , but it is Sarkozy who is trying to drum up votes to get himself re elected next year , by suggesting moving the immigrants to the UK

In answer to George , if a ferry load of immigrants did turn up at a UK port , would the UK be in its rights to keep them on board and send them back to France ?

Oh I see, you want to keep it as it is now (?). If so bad idea, the border should be on the UK
side of the channel, and leave the French to it. I think this is what Sarkozy wants.
It is certainly what I want because our border is ours, the French border is theirs.
Why on earth have we spent millions doing the Frenchies job for them?
Geoff.

What a great idea! We turn them back and let the French either look after them with free housing, benefits, money et al or they could send them on the road south to wherever they originated from.
What a great great pity that there is no-one in the UK with a set of cojones to do that. It would solve so many problems.

The law is quite clear surely...?

If those at Calais are asylum seekers they should have sought asylum at the first safe country they arrived in. France should deport them.

If those at Calais are 'gimmigrants' seeking a better lifestyle in the UK they are illegal immigrants in France. France should deport them.

Either way it is France's problem and that won't change if the border is moved to the UK.

I believe this refers to EU Member Countries; France is under no obligation to prevent refugees moving on to Non-EU Member Countries, which the UK is soon to become.

Jim

Quite right. Well said.
Geoff.

No, the Dublin Convention states that asylum seekers should seek asylum at the first safe country (Italy or Greece presumably?).

If they are in France and have not claimed asylum elsewhere they are there illegally. It is France's problem to deal with them - normally illegal immigrants would be deported to their country of origin. It is up to France to uphold the law.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/asset ... ug2002.pdf

The Dublin Convention is an EU Convention and as I said after Brexit we will not be covered by that convention (rightly or wrongly). If France decides to relax its border controls on the Channel ports in the same way it has relaxed controls on its other borders. The UK will have to comply if they request the UK to remove British Immigration Officers from their country then the UK will have little recourse when the first line of "defence" (shall we say) will be moved back to the English side of the Channel making access to the UK for illegal immigrants much easier.

Jim

How so...?

They would obviously have to tighten immigration procedures at Dover, etc. which would inconvenience everybody...

...but no passport = return to destination would surely be in place...?

EDITED TO ADD: Juxtaposed controls are nothing to do with the EU anyway - they are (one assumes) mutually beneficial agreements between the UK and France.

It was you who brought up the Dublin Convention, not me.

Much easier being no bloody big fence or security to stop the would be illegals on the French side trying to get on boats or trains or wagons, that's how. Very similar to the problems the Greeks and Italians are presently having with Illegals entering their territorial waters by different means. You have to catch them to deport them and around 41,000 illegals have entered the UK since January 2015 so how many more will get in without the restrictions in Calais.

Jim

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03 ... er-the-uk/

The point being Jim they shouldn't even be there!

The French have allowed this problem to grow out of hand - they clearly know the camp exists yet do nothing about it.

I agree, they should all be rounded up and sent home.

CG

I didn't say they should be there but we are were we are and the Brexit is manna from heaven for the French as far Calais is concerned. Once the UK leaves they will just turn a blind eye in trying to prevent all the refugees trying to find ways to cross the Channel and for them it will be problem solved. If the boot was on the other foot do you honestly believe the UK Government would spend billions trying to prevent transients trying to leave the UK, I don't think so.

Jim

Maybe the UK should work alongside the authorities further south (Greece etc) and set up shop there to help deter people.

_________________
Straight talking, no Gimmicks.

Live your dreams.

As I mentioned above (and previously ad nauseam ), this has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit...

There are bilateral agreements between the UK and France - Juxtaposed Controls - that were put in place long before Brexit or the current immigrant crisis...

If the French did 'turn a blind eye' as you suggest, it would bring chaos to cross channel traffic seriously damaging the French economy as much as that of the UK.

It wouldn't be 'problem solved' as you suggest as the UK would just send them all back - at the expense of the French. I suspect they'd have a very different view of thousands of migrants crossing France to get to the channel if that were the case...

And yes, the UK government would try and stop 'transients' because of the huge fines imposed when illegals get to the other side - just as trucking companies are fined now if lorries arrive in the UK with immigrants on board...

And as I keep saying (ad nauseam ) the UK has to catch them first; if 41,000 have slipped in over the last eighteen months with all the security presently at Calais how many more are going to slip in when the first line of defence is moved back over to the UK side.

The French are raising the possibility of cancelling the agreement which puts a whole new slant on the situation; The Brexit is an opportunity for the French to sort out a problem they want shot of.

Jim

All the UK has to do is put up a huge notice stating:

NO BENEFITS, NO HOUSING, NO MONEY, NOTHING AT ALL UNTIL YOU HAVE PAID INTO THE SYSTEM FOR TEN YEARS.

Nothing else.

Sarkozy is pushing this, another horrible little man...presumably as a vote winner in the coming elections...The agreement, is a bilateral agreement between France and the U.K., nothing to do with the EU and certainly nothing to do with Brexit...these "illegal immigrants" are exactly that and France have allowed them to gain a foothold in Calais when they should be deporting them....harse but foregoing your responsibilities...(another EURO desease) and hoping to pass the parcel on is not a solution...and yes the UK will have to tighten up on its borders and it will be able to so without being constrained by EU regulations..France does not want a turf war anymore than the UK...Napolionic sabre rattling by a egotistical failed French politician will do little to Change the status quo....

Precisely!

Jimmy

I don't disagree with anything you say though it is very easy for France to turn around and say, "Well we are doing our best" when they are doing nothing of the sort..

Jim

Says it all really!
Geoff.

No it doesn't say it all really because the UK has a tradition of caring for refugees ...and until these illegal immigrants are classified as refugees they will be looked after...and they know that....we will not deport to countries that are at war, we will not deport to countries that engage in capital punishment....these are not EU regulations these are ours as a humane and caring country....the issue is France and the rest of Europe have allowed these people to march through, their borders unguarded and now...as always..the only thing that stops them is the channel.....it matters not where the controls are...what matters is our ability to turn them around and Send them to their last point of departure...which is exactly what France should be doing....they have to be discouraged...the UK is not the land of milk and honey and there is certainly no yellow brick road...it is now coming down to,survival of a society which is under threat of being destroyed.....it's that serious I am afraid.

Which is exactly what I said in my opening post Jimmy!!!

"My question would be what is France doing about its own border controls?? The majority of those camped in Calais are not from the EU, so why is France not sending them back to whence they came, or accommodating them in secure transit accommodation pending either their applications for asylum in FRANCE or returning them to their home country as failed asylum seekers?

Why does this become a UK problem?"

The problem with the non-EU 'refugees' is NOT an EU problem! They are in France, therefore it is the duty of FRANCE to deal with them!!! So why don't they? And why is Sarkozy trying to foist the problem onto the UK??? Because that's what France always does, it's never their problem, as they wring their hands and bleat!

I think it is time, then, that the UK reviewed its policies towards these people. Whether from the EU or from elsewhere.
Geoff.