Paphos People

Geoff,

I totally agree with the UK reasoning. Cyprus is still strategically very important to the UK, but nowhere near as important as it used to be when we had an Empire, and needed Cyprus as a staging post for our Far East possessions and Middle East influence (Palestine under the British Mandate). Cyprus was also important when we needed to control the Suez Canal. However, we live in a different world now, and our Empire finally went when Kowloon/New Territories were handed back and Hong Kong was handed over (note the terminology!) to the PRC in 1997. The SBAs are essentially for military use only - that's why they come under the jurisdiction of the UK SoS for Defence rather than the Foreign Office. Militarily speaking, therefore, they are larger than is currently necessary, hence the 7,000 Cypriot civilians who are currently resident there farming the land. Handover of some of the surplus in order to facilitate an agreement is simply good statesmanship in my opinion.

I do not agree with rent being paid for the SBAs. Would you pay rent to the Cyprus Govt for land you owned in the RoC or to the TRNC for land you legitimately owned there? The SBAs are sovereign British Overseas Territory. There are some people who simply do not understand this concept and would have us cede the Falklands to Argentina, Gibraltar to Spain and the SBAs to Cyprus. That then begs the question - who should we give Bermuda to? Or the British Virgin Islands? What about St Helena, Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, or British Antarctic Territory or South Georgia and South Sadwich Islands?

Geoff, the Cypriots agreed to the SBA areas when they signed the agreement in 1960 so cant go whinging about it now, any more than the Spanish who agreed to hand over Gibraltar many years ago!

Geoff, the Cypriots agreed to the SBA areas when they signed the agreement in 1960 so cant go whinging about it now, any more than the Spanish who agreed to hand over Gibraltar many years ago!

Won't stop them winging though.
Geoff.

Might be no need to hand over anything. Turkey say troops STAY

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38609828

That's that then, all over bar the blame game.
Geoff.

I believe many of the Officers in the National Guard are Greek and there is a constant movement of Greek Army Vehicles up by the Green Line; not sure how many there are but appears to be quite a few.

Jim

According to press reports there are about 1000 Greek troops in S.Cyprus.
Geoff.

My Son in Law , like most Cypriots is a reservist in the National Guard and he has an intense dislike of the Greek Officers, finding them arrogant and very unpopular with the troops; he for one would be glad to see the back of them.

Jim

What a great swap! Remove 30,000 Greek troops and 1,000 Greek troops! It's about time Cyprus became totally independent of both Greece and Turkey.

So why didn't the President agree to it then? 1,000 Greek troops out in exchange for 30,000
Turkish troops out seems a good deal to me.
Also, whilst on the subject of the Geneva talks, all the pictures of him leaving show him to be
smiling and announcing the conference to have been a success; does this mean he was not
really wanting a deal at all perhaps??!!
Geoff.

EU Commission to give Cyprus €3.1 billion euro in case of solution.
Has anyone seen this report in the International Press and the Cyprus Mail ?

A friend of mine that has some connections *taps nose* told me six months ago that the agreement would go ahead because VAST sums of cash were guaranteed and in place for compo...

So, even if you couldn't get your family land back in "enter as applicable" there would be sufficient funds available to sway your opinion on the deal...

Thank you, we agree.
Like I said in another post if you or I were Cypriots we would, I am sure, feel the opposite.
In fact we would not want any SBAs at all in our country.
Geoff.

Oh come on....

The continuing British military presence in Cyprus has given rise to local unrest: a latter-day reminder, if one is needed, of a difficult colonial relationship which exploded into violence in the 1950s and, however indirectly, helped make possible the sadly divided condition of Cyprus today.

Aren't we benefiting from the strategic position of the island without bothering to honour any of its financial and political obligations towards the Cypriots.

For those, who care, the British National Archives at Kew are rife with released British Governments’ documents that give evidence to the ‘however indirect’ engineering of the sad division of Cyprus.

Just because the Falklands are nearer to Argentina, does not make them Argentinian territory. If anything, they belong to the Falkland Islanders and we - the UK - are responsible for their defence amongst other things. This is the will of the islanders.

And how long were you here in that time Bassman? 18/20 months? Plus another 3 months in the noughties?

The Cypriot people fared very well over the years from the SBAs.

That's not strictly true JK, the British sheltered and provided aid to thousands of GC's within the SBA's and deployed its resources in order to prevent the Turkish Forces entering the SBA's. The British also evacuated President Makarios from the Island to safety during the Greek led coup which triggered the Turkish invasion.

You are talking about 50 years ago!! I was still at school then.



Can you explain how? The bases did provide employment for some, but how did the rest of the island benefit? The bases certainly didn't provide security as when the Turks invaded in 74, the British military were instructed to sit on their hands and do nothing.

What you say is true. But what the British Troops did NOT do was assist the Greek Cypriots to repel the invaders. They were ordered to stay in their barracks.
Pretty poor show for a fellow NATO Member and Commonwealth Member.
Well at least the GCs know who their friends are!
Geoff.

That's not strictly true JK, the British sheltered and provided aid to thousands of GC's within the SBA's and deployed its resources in order to prevent the Turkish Forces entering the SBA's. The British also evacuated President Makarios from the Island to safety during the Greek led coup which triggered the Turkish invasion.

What you say is true. But what the British Troops did NOT do was assist the Greek Cypriots to repel the invaders. They were ordered to stay in their barracks.
Pretty poor show for a fellow NATO Member and Commonwealth Member.
Well at least the GCs know who their friends are!
Geoff.

What you say is true. But what the British Troops did NOT do was assist the Greek Cypriots to repel the invaders. They were ordered to stay in their barracks.
Pretty poor show for a fellow NATO Member and Commonwealth Member.
Well at least the GCs know who their friends are!
Geoff.

British Were not confined to barracks, they deployed to prevent access of the Turkish Forces onto the SBA.

In 1974 I was 20 years old and serving in 40 Commando Royal Marines. At that time we were the UKs' 'Spearhead' unit on 6 hours notice to move anywhere in the world. Within 12 hours of the Turkish invasion we were actually on the ground in Cyprus. Our mission was primarily to protect the SBAs, but we also helped with refugees from both sides who sought refuge within the SBAs. I remember one old man in particular (TC) who told me that his two underage daughters had been raped and killed by Greek Cypriots - something I will never forget. We came under just fire once, and having located where the shots were coming from we sought permission from our Commando Headquarters to return fire which was refused. However, when we raised the Union Flag above our position to identify ourselves as British, the shooting stopped. Our mission was then expanded to ensure that all married accommodation outside the SBAs (mainly in Limassol as far as my Company was concerned) had been evacuated and we provided safe passage for U.K. nationals to Akrotiri base.

We were NOT there to intervene between TCs and GCs - both of which were and still are NATO allies and both, along with the UK, Guarantor Powers as far as Cyprus is concerned. We returned to the UK after being relieved on the ground by a British Army unit - not the UN.

In 1974 I was 20 years old and serving in 40 Commando Royal Marines. At that time we were the UKs' 'Spearhead' unit on 6 hours notice to move anywhere in the world. Within 12 hours of the Turkish invasion we were actually on the ground in Cyprus. Our mission was primarily to protect the SBAs, but we also helped with refugees from both sides who sought refuge within the SBAs. I remember one old man in particular (TC) who told me that his two underage daughters had been raped and killed by Greek Cypriots - something I will never forget. We came under fire just once, and having located where the shots were coming from, we sought permission from our Commando Headquarters to return fire which was refused. However, when we raised the Union Flag above our position to identify ourselves as British, the shooting stopped. Our mission was then expanded to ensure that all married accommodation outside the SBAs (mainly in Limassol as far as my Company was concerned) had been evacuated and we provided safe passage for U.K. nationals to Akrotiri base.

We were NOT there to intervene between TCs and GCs - both of which were and still are NATO
allies and both, along with the UK, Guarantor Powers as far as Cyprus is concerned. We returned to the UK after being relieved on the ground by a British Army unit - not the UN.

I worked with a Welsh guy who was there in 1974 and he was on the front line at one of the SBA's and he did also say the Turks fired on them as well.

Jim

Geoffreys

For the record Cyprus has never been in Nato but that is bye the bye.

A Cypriot friend of mine fought at Nicosia Airport for the National Guard, was severely wounded and was flown out to the UK for treatment. He was a machine gunner and told me that about 4am every morning a British Army Truck used to appear and offload ammunition, without it he said they wouldn't have been able to hold the airport. They fought the Turks to a standstill; he always talks with great affection of the British and the help they gave.

Jim

Re. Dave G's & Jim B's posts, recalling comments made by those actually on the island at the time of the invasion ....
UK troops protecting a minority population in an area / assisting in repelling invaders .... That seems an impartial / non-racist attitude.
Both sides had the wish to dominate .... and the UK tried to keep both sides from firing on each other's general population.
What thanks did the UK troops get ? ... They were fired on by both sides !

Damm, don't you just hate it when someone comes along with facts, you know actually there on the ground, experiencing history as it was made rather than speculating and making unfounded, ill informed comment, must just ruin some peoples day.

The United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) is a United Nations peacekeeping force that was established under United Nations Security Council Resolution 186 in 1964 to prevent a recurrence of fighting following intercommunal violence between the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, to contribute to the maintenance and restoration of law and order and to facilitate a return to normal conditions.

Cyprus is the only EU member state that is neither a NATO member state nor a member of PfP.
The Partnership for Peace (PfP) is a North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) program aimed at creating trust between NATO and other states in Europe and the former Soviet Union; 22 states are members

Don't think that Cyprus was a Nato member back then. What must not be ignored is the UN was there to specifically to keep the peace between the GCs and TCs and had been for several years.