Paphos People

Just a reminder for those venturing into the occupied areas (TRNC) that the Holy Month of Ramadan starts today (27th May).
Drinking or eating in public is frowned upon, and in any case out of respect best not to.
During Ramadan they eat late, after dark, so drivers can be a bit dozy early next day.
Geoff.

Yes, it seems we should follow their customs when we are in their country and also follow their customs when they are in our country. Respect works both ways...

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

I certainly made sure I entered into the correct spirit on this first day of Ramadan

Barbecued pork and plenty of beer at an early lunch

That's the proper way to start a holiday

Well said

Exactly my thoughts too!

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I'll be back!

Correct, but are you suggesting the Muslims from the "north" do not respect the Christian customs here in the south?
I have to say I dislike the tone of your post.
Geoff.

It is not a Christian custom to restrict the freedom of females .... or encourage them to speak through a curtain of fabric, Geoff !

Ramadan is set by the cycles of moon and the clerics decree when Ramadan falls, the period is normally four weeks, it is from sunrise to sunset. In the summer Ramadan it is a long fast, in winter it is easier as the daylight hours are shorter.
During that period they cannot partake in liquids or food, the exception being the children (only token participation) the sick or the elderly they are given permission to abstain.
Now the wests misconception, it is only the Muslims that partake in the Ramadan, we can eat and drink but must be respectful how we go about this, we are not asked us to observe their custom just be respectful, this is nothing to do with die hard fanatics or religious intolerance but purely their culture.
Do not go down the road of intolerance, this is what the fanatics want, what we think of fanatics is another topic nothing to do with Ramadan.

Well as SFD correctly says we need to have mutual respect for all religions and no intolerance.
Regards Ramadan in Cyprus I was therefore suggesting that any of us who visits the "north"
during Ramadan should respect it.
I am not aware that Turkish Cypriots do not respect the Christian customs when they visit the south.
Geoff.

Respect should be shown on both sides of the border, according to this article there is only one church left standing in the north
http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-l ... rus-32154/

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Dave

Uncle D, if you read my last post it is not that we do not respect their culture it is the zealots that use the religion as a tool, we have bigots within our own community.
Believe it or not a true Muslim believe in our faith, they believes in Jesus Christ as well as Allah, it is the idiots that use the faith against us they are the ones we need to wipe out.
In our own history we were not exactly innocent, just look at the crusades, watch the film Kingdom of Heaven and read various books then we may think differently, again it is the Zealots who need rooting out.

Well Geoff, I'm very sorry if you don't like the 'tone' of my post. What 'tone' do you think it is?

Just so that there is no doubt, I dislike the 'tone' of Islam demanding that the indigenous population of any country they are in, respect and fall in line with their culture without reciprocating. I dislike the fact that so many supermarkets pander to their 'requirement' for halal food without feeling the need to tell the rest of us. I dislike the advice given to businesses to ensure that their non muslim workers do not eat at their desks during Ramadan. I dislike the advice given that there should be separate cooking facilities (even microwaves) so that if you they don't have to smell bacon. I dislike the way 'Happy Christmas' is now 'Happy Holidays' so as not to offend muslims. I dislike the way the term 'Easter' was taken off Easter Eggs (now halal) in order not to offend. I dislike the way that the PC Brigade (which presumably because you dislike the 'tone' of my post, includes you) has apologised for, and in many instances covered up the root causes of serious crime in order NOT to offend 'our muslim community'. Look at the grooming scandal in Rotherham for an example of where this policy led.

I stand by what I said which is that respect works both ways, but for muslims it only works one way - theirs.

Unfortunately, we have pandered to their 'requirements' for far too long. Our culture is being changed constantly and surreptitiously, and I for one do not like it.

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

Sorry lowvoltage but that is simply not true. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and not the Christ (Messiah) or the Son of God. Every mosque has the words above the entrance which says "There is only one God and he has no son".



Agreed. But you forget that the last crusade was around 800 years ago.

We have moved on.

Islam hasn't!

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

Well said that man.

It is illegal to practice Christianity in Saudia Arabia. Why? That is just bonkers.

Any muslims that choose to live in a Christian country should, in turn, live as a Christian.

Ok David G, on this occasion I stand corrected.

I read the tone of your post as tending towards being anti-Islam.
Geoff.

Geoff,

I am a Christian. Plain and simple. Whilst I have respect for everyone's belief in other faiths, I clearly think that there is only one true God.

However, you should be aware that the meaning of "Islam" is "Submit" and that submission is the basic tenet of the muslim faith. Everyone has to submit to it that's what's happening in the West at the moment. Have you ever been to Israel? Every mosque which exists there has been built on a Jewish synagogue - including the Dome of the Rock. The Jews, for their part, have respected all mosques as places of worship. As Uncle D has said, there is a similar attitude towards places of worship in the TRNC and ROC.

This 'submission' is both religious and cultural. Under these circumstances am I anti Islam? Yes, you can surely count on it. I am anti submission to their religion and culture. I'm sorry if that offends you, but that seems to be the problem in the West - we don't want to offend anyone.

However, if you re-phrase the question to am I anti muslims? No. As I already stated I am a Christian and a basic tenet of my faith is to love everyone. That's what I try to do. Sorry if that offends you. It seems that

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

Geoff, you have disagreed with David G, but please consider this. Muslims in Britain, have been able to criticise Christian beliefs openly in public for at least half a century now, without any retribution. I therefore find it inconceivable, that if a Christian were to question Islamist beliefs openly in ANY Arab country, then why would they find themself in prison, and that is if they were not lynched by a Muslim mob?
I well remember in the late 60's, that most weekdays I was driving to Islington in North London, but could not go down a certain road, because it was blocked by Islamists, with their bums up in the air, in a certain ROAD outside a mosque. One day, I went down the road in the lorry I used, and was stopped by the police. My comment was that this was a ROAD, so why were they stopping me using it. Their reply was "that they didn't want to cause a problem with those people, as it might cause a riot if I did so". My reply was, that as I had a legal right to drive there, I should be given preference, instead of having to make a detour every day. All the policeman had to say to me in answer to my question was, " You might be charged with causing an affray"!!
My goodness, since then haven't the police had a problem by being so weak early on.

Thanks for your clarification David G. I did not say I was offended by your post, just that I disliked the tone of it.
I am also a Christian, but it seems a more tolerant one than your goodself.
What were your views on what the Archbishop of Cyprus had to say on TV recently - remarks that caused some to accuse him of being a racist? The Attorney General concluded his remarks were not hatred and racism, but I gather from the media reports it is likely to finish up in the Supreme
Court and then possibly the ECJ.
Geoff.

You won't find many, or indeed any of those in the north. Short skirts and skimpy tops seem to be the normal in TRNC.

Geoff, I think you are confusing my posting supporting David G to mine. I am "Wavy Dave"!!!!!!!!!!!

Geoff,

It is not in anyone's interest to adopt a "Holier than Thou" attitude - especially amongst professing Christians.

Toleration seems to be a rather loose term nowadays, just thrown around lightly and grossly misused - not least of which is where one side is expected to be tolerant of the other, but that toleration is never reciprocated.

As a Christian, I believe in the Holy Bible and do not believe in its dilution or change to suit the times or any given agenda. I do not believe in gay marriage as it's against God's Word, but our society is no longer Christian - it's multi-cultural with an all inclusive "everyone gets to heaven no matter what" sort of attitude. I am not homophobic - the usual response from people who don't allow any other view but their own.

As a Christian, I do not believe in women Ministers because it is against God's Word. The established churches have ignored the Word, however and both allowed and condoned women priests. I am not sexist - again a knee jerk response from those who seek to change the bible to suit their own agenda.

As a Christian, I believe that all are sinners and we should love the sinner whilst hating the sin.

As a Christian, I would not tolerate allowing a Muslim to preach Islam from the pulpit of a Christian Cathedral in the name of 'tolerance' - especially when the person invited to speak used Koranic verses denouncing Christianity as happened recently in Scotland. There was also an Anglican Church which recently allowed the Muslim "call to prayer" from the pulpit.

We live in a "tolerant" society and we should all obey the laws of the land. It does not mean, however, that we have to compromise our beliefs.

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

Wow David G, you missed your vocation in life, that was one hell (no pun meant) of a sermon, again religion has divided opinion and got the wind up some, that my friends is democracy and not the brutal ways of those who push it down our necks, just think some of you would have been flogged or stoned or executed by now.

I just wish - there was no such thing as religion.... it would solve a whole heap of problems

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Busy exploring England's green & pleasant lands since May 2016 after 12yrs in Cyprus.
There appears to be a misapprehension I run a photography business... it's my passion as a hobby.
I sell and buy postage stamps!

I know David quite well..and he is possibly the most Christian person I have ever met...and the most tolerant..I am not religious at all, he knows that and we are the best of friends..he has an extremely strong belief that I respect absolutely..he never tries to impose his views on anyone..and is comfortable up in his faith...Geoff, I doubt very much that you have the same "faith" as David, you may feel you are Christian but I doubt if you practice it...so please do not pretend you are of a faith...and dare to doubt those that have.

For Hudswell:
You don't know anything about me or my faith - I have already stated my religion etc.
Please do not make assumptions.
Noted about David G. I see in his latest post he disagrees with women ministers in the (Christian) Church. That is up to him but in the context of this thread where it has been said that Muslims treat their women as un-equals his stance is laughable. Do as I do, not as I say, comes to mind.
He did not comment on the remarks made by the Archbishop of Cyprus - I wonder why not.
My bottom line is Live and let Live.
The differences between the two great religions have been around since Jesus was alive, and well exploited for various reasons, not least to justify numerous wars. This irony was well demonstrated
in WWII when both sides claimed to have God on their side.
Geoff.
P.S. For Wavy Dave: sorry I thought you were agreeing with David G. My error.

I agree with the tenet 'Live & let live'.... but I do not rely on ANY religion !
I believe ALL are innocent at birth .... The problems come from their upbringing and indoctrination !
To deny women 'equal status and position', in a religion of their choice, is on par with them being made 'subservient to men' and made to 'cover up'.
Religions began as a way to 'police' communities, based on fairy stories and fear. However, some have morphed into 'evil ideologies'.
Isn't it ironic that most wars are initiated by men ?
More women are coming to the fore, especially in politics. Not that all will be of good intent ... but it may make for a more gentle world ...... I hope !!!

You mean examples such as; Thatcher, Merkel, Abbott & Sturgeon?

The south africans have a saying;
Remember that it is the lioness that does the killing!

Be careful what you wish for.

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I'll be back!

You missed Clinton- if we ever get to the bottom of her affairs I reckon she'll make Lady Macbeth look like Mother Teresa

Please note that I did say "Not that all will be of good intent " !

Geoff,

I assume that you are referring to the fact that the Archbishop of Cyprus said that homosexuality is a sin? I have told you that I am a Christian, and you told me that you are too. Why, therefore, do you need me - in a Public Forum - to comment on what he said? Presumably because you disagree with him? If you are unsure of where the Archbishop is coming from, just look at 1 Corinthians 9-11 to see what the Bible says about the issue. I have already stated here that I am not homophobic and that we should love the sinner but hate the sin. I do not intend to get into a theological discussion with you over this matter. If as a Christian you wish to cherry pick from the Bible the bits to believe, then that is entirely a matter for you.



I assume that the "two great religions" as you put it are Christianity and Islam? If so, they have certainly not been around since Jesus was alive. There was a period of around 600 years before Muhammed started his religion of Islam declaring that he was the final messenger of Allah and that there would be no further revelation given to anyone after him.



Hmm!

Muhammad married his second wife and consummated the marriage when she was 10 - but let's live and let live.

Halal meat, which is sold by so many supermarkets in the UK now has a ritual prayer said over the animal which is not stunned before slaughter but has its throat slit in order to drain all the blood whilst the heart is pumping - but let's live and let live.

Under Sharia law a Muslim can marry up to four wives and divorce each one by saying "I divorce you" three times - but let's live and let live.

Christians in Muslim countries are being raped, beaten, put out of their homes, jailed and even killed just for being Christian. But let's live and let live.

http://mailchi.mp/barnabasfund/prayer-f ... d60e390a7d

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

This will get all the god squad going.

Many years ago I was in the army and had to attend compulsory, I say compulsory church parade, towards the end of my service I refused to attend (got a lot of grief) note, I was at birth christened C of E. but I am now an atheist. The regimental god man asked my why I am a non believer.

Well sir I believe we all illegitimate, and possibly sir you are also a bar steward, he went white then very red and how do you come to conclusion this please explain yourself

God made Adam & Eve in his image and they had three children (all male), emphasis on all male children, they were Cain, Abell, Seth, then how did they populate the world, because God did not create any more so was it mass incest? The Padre was lost for words and could not explain, after a few embarrassing moments silence, I was asked to leave his office and Guess what no more church parades.

Maybe some members will find the following clip interesting. Those inclined to pre-judge, based on who is making the comments, should listen to what is said, as the claims are all verifiable. You may not be able to access the video without a Facebook account on Firefox, but you certainly can access it using Chrome or The Edge without logging in.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1022373071232080&id=381971441938916&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FFYvLhOpZPy&_rdr

Well said David G.

''We live in a "tolerant" society and we should all obey the laws of the land. It does not mean, however, that we have to compromise our beliefs''.

Good points, well made, David G.

You have to bear in mind though that Geoff is a wind up merchant of the highest order.

Just look at the threads that he starts but never comments on!

When he does comment it is ususally to contradict himself with a previous comment!,

I don't know why he ever came back.

KG Just seen the video you posted, I then checked the accuracy of his comments via the internet and blimey they are accurate, if the blinkered people stopped and listened to what he said then we are in trouble and it needs sorting out ASAP.
Quote from Enoch Powell "There will be blood on our streets" He was right.

For David G:
No I was not referring to the Archbishops comments about homosexuality.
But to his comments about the Turkish young people. I won't repeat what he said, other than he called them uncouth, and breeding like rabbits. He thinks they should all go back to Turkey (forgetting that 1000s have already taken out Turkish Cypriot citizenship!).
Geoff.

Which 2 great religions are those then?

Sun worship, Odin, river gods?

When Jesus was alive, he was a Jew. There were plenty of other diverse religions in that area at the time, all were valid for the people that lived there then.

Lets us not forget that Mohamed was also a practicing Jew during he's lifetime.

So, should it be that Judaism is the 1 true religion?

BTW, getting back to the original topic, I checked on Tripadvisor wether the BARS and restaurants are open during the day in Girne , Kyrenia. Yes they are!!

Given that the TRNC is an illegal entity not recognised by any country except Turkey, how does that work?

It doesn't. Just more made up nonsense.

There is no such place as Turkish Cyprus, let alone Turkish Cypriot Citizens. There is only Cyprus.

Immigrants from Turkey are there illegally.

And everyone knows that.

What exactly has the above got to do with Ramadan?
Answer: nothing!
I await an answer about the Archbishop's comments. I live in hopes, but will probably die in despair.
Geoff.

Back on topic .....

...... you started the thread about respecting Ramadam in the occupied zone, do you remember that?

The concensus is that Ramadam is not widely practiced their anyway. Maybe by a few Turks but not by the Cypriots. Bars, restaurants, casinos, etc all carry on as normal.
If you wish to abstain during daylight hours, that is fine.

As for the rest of us, I don't believe it has any effect at all.

Geoff,

With respect - I haven't a clue what you're talking about. I have not heard anything about the Archbishops' comments which has clearly riled you. As far as I am aware, there is nothing in the local press here to enlighten me or anyone else as to what on earth you are referring to. It's like a riddle which you expect everyone to research then come back with an answer. Unfortunately, even if I knew what the Archbishop actually said - guess what? I am not here to defend or justify any individuals of the Greek Orthodox Church.

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Initium Sapientiae Timor Domini

David G, I am pretty good at research and to help Geoff and yourself I have found this and hopefully settles matters.

1st November 2016 in the mail, there is a lot more but this is a snapshot
Archbishop Chrysostomos has announced that the Church plans on establishing schools that will teach among other things that homosexuality is “an unnatural choice”.
The comment drew the ire of Accept-LGBTI Cyprus, which said it was high time the Church started loving their neighbour, a reference to the New Testament. It would also report the Archbishop to the attorney-general, it said.

This has been rumbling on since 2012 when he went on a tizzy about gays and more recently about this years gay pride in Nicosia.
Hope this helps.

Arguments. Should get a new heading "Ramadan a ding dong"

Great Post

Got to hand it to Geoffrey,, after announcing his retirement from several forums, he lasted about a month, before the urge to post yet more wind ups, has become to much so he comesback with a corker.......take a bow Geoff no one does wind ups like you...

Geoff recognizes the north. no more to say.

Pot calling the kettle black me-thinks.
My reasons for coming back have been well documented.
Geoff.

Dont think so...I didnt put a statement on here saying im not going to post again, but glad to see a man of his word.
PS If you throw grenades about, dont be surprised if some shrapnel comes your way.